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133rd Synod of the Diocese of Niagara

Same Gender Blessings

Please refer to motions:
Episcopal Oversight

Ground rules:

  • Be honest, clear, respectful - and Listen (no applause, no cat calls!)

Refer to Same Sex Blessings.

Discussion:

Margaret Murray and Marilyn Robbins

  • Margaret Murray - mover - in 70's three barriers removed: children being admitted to communion, divorced to marriage, and women admitted to ministry. Humanity had been denied - and this had to be lifted. The exclusion sanctioned by the church had to be lifted. We have talked for years at synods and youth synods about he barriers to those in same sex loving relationships. In 2005 this synod recognized the integrity of same gender relationships. This synod chose a new bishop who recognizes the integrity of same sex relationships. Our general synod recognized the same. This is time and this is the synod where we can take the action needed to remove the barriers against those in committed loving same sex relationships. This synod can stand for the the gay members of our community by offering blessing and love. This synod can enable clergy to act according to their conscience. Some clergy cannot provide blessings - others cannot in good conscience defend any distinction in same sex and heterosexual relationships. This synod can empower our bishops to implement this motion as soon as possible. This is the time and this is the synod.
  • Exact words of Margaret Murray's address (posted Nov 26)

    The 1970’s were exciting years in the Church!
    3 barriers were lifted – 3 conditions removed
     – to embrace those who had previously been excluded:
    Children being admitted to Communion
    Divorced persons being admitted for marriage.
    Women being admitted to the ordained ministry.
    Each time, the barrier had to be removed – the condition removed when we began to recognize
    the pain being experienced – the humanity being denied . . . . . . .
    and then, we found ourselves no longer able to defend
    the church-sanctioned privilege and church-sanctioned exclusion.

    For 15 years – at 7 General Synods,    Diocesan Synods and 10 Youth Synods,
    we have talked about the barriers being faced
     – as we deny the full humanityand the graced relationships
    observable among our friends and family within the gay and lesbian community.

    • In 2004, this Synod asked the Bishop to permit same-sex blessings;
    • In 2005, this Synod recognized the integrity and sanctity of

    committed same gender relationships;

    • In June 2007, this Synod chose to elect another Bishop who recognizes the potential for

    sacredness and wholeness within committed same-sex relationships;

  • In June 2007, General Synod declared that the blessing of same-sex unions is not in conflict with the core doctrine of the Anglican Church
  • In October 2007, the Dioceses of Ottawa & Montreal passed the same motion we now present.
  • This is the time – and this is the Synod that can stand with others in the Church,
    taking leadership in lifting a barrier – removing a condition –
    to embrace those who have been excluded.
  • This Synod can stand – for the responsibility we have as a diocese
     – to attend to the specific ministry context we serve
     – among the gay and straight members of our communities.  
  • This Synod can stand – for the loving, faithful relationships of our gay and lesbian members
     – by offering welcome, blessing and celebration.
  • This Synod can stand – for ministry patterns that express the love of God – for all.
  • This Synod can stand – enabling clergy to act according to their conscience recognizing that some clergy cannot in good conscience agree to provide blessings for same-sex couples while others cannot in good conscience defend the distinction between heterosexual relationships and same sex relationships
    – as it relates to offering a blessing which celebrates faithful love and commitment.  
  • This Synod can stand – empowering our bishops in their leadership by providing a clear sign and strong encouragement that they might implement this motion as soon as is reasonably possible.

This is the time and this is the Synod. 

 

Text of Motion
Whereas the Diocese of Niagara wishes to express to the House of Bishops and the
Council of General Synod the conviction that we believe that God is calling us to move
forward now; to wait before the faithful relationships of our gay and lesbian members
are blessed by the Church would be unloving and cause further pain and suffering
and

Whereas the Diocese of Niagara respects and honours those within our Diocese who,
because of their theological position or as a matter of conscience, cannot agree with
the blessings of same sex unions.

Be it resolved:
That this Synod request the Bishop to allow clergy, whose conscience permits, to
bless the duly solemnized and registered civil marriages between same-sex
couples, where at least one party is baptized, and to authorize rites for such
blessings.

 

Mover: The Reverend Canon Dr. Margaret Murray
St. Matthias, Guelph
Seconder: Ms. Marilyn Robbins
St. James, Dundas

 

 

Marilyn Robbins
I am pleased to second this motion.  As the motion indicates, it is time for us to move forward in love, respect, and compassion.  It is time to acknowledge the sacredness of all loving relationships. It is not a time for extending/causing further pain and suffering.  It is a time of being conscious of the divine light of God in all of us and the oneness of God’s creation.

  • Speak against - I don't see how we can do it - General synod said no. No means no. We are part of the wider church. We cannot violate that.
  • Do not do this if you care about our anglican church. Consider where in the world this is coming up. Catholics orthodox and protestants have said no. THe majority of the anglican church has said no. This is a culturally motivated motion - not scriptural. We will walk out of step with communion. We are called not to be culturally oriented - but to be resident aliens. Jesus CHrist is lord - not our culture. The decline of the anglican church in the west is growing exponentially. Tolerance is a cultural word - a legal word. Love is the biblical word. Don't limit God's love to everything is ok. Love is bigger than tolerance. Love says yes and love says no.

speakerAdjustment to the motion: immediately follow word bishop - "to allow clergy at the time of his discretion."

  • Amendment is unnecessary. It is unwise. We have to act in solidarity with dioceses like Ottawa and Montreal. I urge defeat of amendment. AMMENDMENT DEFEATED.
  • I speak to two things - as a former teacher and mother - I teach the right way - many believe that Jesus says nothing about homosexuality - but he came to fulfill the law not to abolish it. He takes us back to Genesis. We need to look at what it says. The world wide communion - I love the world wide communion. I value the friendships _ I do not want to tear this apart - do not walk away from it.
  • I vote against - please do not walk apart from the world wide Anglican communion. In 1998 Lam beth passed outright rejection of blessing of same sex unions. The Anglican primates said that our union is being torn apart - by westminster and by the election of Gene Robinson. THe world wide union is calling for a moratorium on same sex blessing. To accept this motion is to choose to walk apart from the world wide communion. I urge you to please not do it.
  • speaker
  • I speak in favour. In the Scripture he didn't say - some of you come to me, - I feel I know where Christ would have been. A question to those who vote against this motion - it is a medical fact that between 3and 10 percent are hardwired same gender - why would God have created these to be incapable of a sinless life.
  • I speak in favour - I am openly gay male. This motion is much more than the blessing of same sex unions. THis is about acceptance. We should not have to look for flags or calendars to find acceptance. I left a church because of non-acceptance. I ask you to please accept this motion.
  • speaker
  • I speak in favour (wildly) - It returns the discretion and authority to the role of the bishop. IT changes it from politics to justice and pastoral care. God did not cover all the topics in the scriptures - like nuclear weapons and cars - but the spirit keeps telling us where we need to go. I am wildly in favour of the world wide community - but we are all different. In uganda - clergy that drink would be fired. We would all have been fired last night at the dinner! In our society we do not believe this. We need to include all people that God puts before us.
  • 1 Cor 12 ff - we are all part of one body. Desmond Tutu - following the election of Gene Robinson - Jesus did not say I will draw some - he said I will draw all all all all , black , white, rich, clever, not so beautiful - .... all all all all all belong - gay and lesbian and so called straight. God must be weeping - we have the opportunity to have god small.
  • I am against this motion - Christ told us to turn against this world. Outside this world I support homosexual blessing in side this room - I do not support - follow Christ not our world
  • Jesus was castigated by pharisees and scribes because his disciples picked corn on sabbath - Jesus healed a woman on the sabbath - he was told it was unlawful - he said the law was made for us - not us for the sabbath. The God I know could well have sent us saviour and prophet who would say - I want you to maintain communion with the Pharisees and Scribes and the law - but that is not the Jesus I know. It takes small amounts of change to make larger change. I support this motion.
  • speaker
  • I speak against the motion. I have been praying daily for discernment. I feel it is not right. THe laws of the land govern us in many ways and we respect those. They do not have to govern all of our actions. If we believe that something is wrong - we should stand up and speak - I speak against.
  • I support the motion. I welcome and respect the diversity of views in our community. Gods love is boundless. In response we are each called in our baptism to construct a world of love. God excludes no one from grace - and we are called to respect freedom of conscience. Homophobia is a structural and systemic evil. We are called to change our church structures.
  • speaker
  • I cannot support the motion. I could recite pages of scripture - the blessing of same sex unions are not of God. Many are using different glasses. IF it does go - then off you go.
  • In favour. Homosexuality is not the invention of the secular world. They are often invisible and oppressed. There are some cultures who say we have no homosexuality. This is because they are oppressed. Even in our country it is not always safe. That is simply wrong. I want no part of a structure that encourages this. REcently someone from the RC church thanked me for the fact that we are addressing this - we cannot even speak about this in the RC church. We can speak about it - and we will be physically safe. IF we are to err - it must be on the side of justice - rather than being safe or being in mythical union with the rest of the world. It is a situation of terrible injustice - it's time to do the right thing.
  • The motion encourages respect and honour of those who have different opinions. It doesn't say we are going to tolerate each other - but rather respect each other. EVen those who might think differently. THat is the high calling of this motion. To vote for this motion is to say that we are going to change many ways that we will communicate with each other. We will stop personal attacks and inflammatory comments. We need to look at each other who vote differently - and say that I love you as my brother or sister in christ.
  • The youth have made it clear where we stand. We have passed this motion countless times. Jesus calls us to be loving, compassionate and kind. That is my message from scripture. His love has no boundaries - and we have put up the boundaries. We must be the change that we want to see in the world. Please vote yes.
  • speaker
  • I vote against the motion. Can anyone in the room quote a passage from scriptures where sodomy is sanctioned by God. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. This may sound offensive - but Jesus does love sinners. We have no objection or rejection of same sex individuals having a relationship or love. But to ask God to bless those sins which is the sexual act between them - is totally wrong. Jesus blessed sinners and told them not to sin. He never ever blessed the sin.
  • I speak in favour. We should salute the Canadians who have been uncomfortable with this - but have grown to accept same sex marriage. Canada is the envy of the world in this way. Our common challenge is look at each other in love and compassion and put aside our differences. LEt us put this issue behind us. IN the future we will look at this and wonder how it could even have been an issue.
  • speaker
  • I speak in favour - although I am opposed of same sex blessings. I am weary of this debate. The thousands of pages and hours - the threats, counter-threats. I am weary. I am drained mentally and physically. Please do it and do it quickly. Meanwhile wars, starvation and hundreds of evils cry out us.
  • I speak in favour. I will not regurgitate. A lot of us have strong views and I have good friends on either side of this issue. There has been significant effort to seek common ground. Our bishop has worked at this. Give our bishops a clear mandate to proceed.
  • Against. I'm worried about the door we are talking about opening. what other doors are down that hallway - polygamy, incestuous relationship, relationships with children...
  • I speak in favour - vote yes and vote yes today. THis is the synod and this is the time. I know the majority of the A Communion is in a different place. THis is about transparency about ourselves and our consciences. This is who we are. This is a cultural issue - but we've been thorough this before. Could the uncircumcised share in God's goodness - it was a tough struggle in the early church. We need to say that Gay and Lesbians not have to be celibate to share in God's purpose. Vote yes as clearly and loudly as your conscience permits.
  • I speak in favour because I believe that God blesses same sex relationship and through their vows - they are an agency of God's blessing to the community. As in marriage so in the relationships of the same sex persons. I also want to say that there are those who disagree and profoundly respect them. When we turn away from one another we turn away from the cause of Jesus. I recognize that my position may be in error - but I have a conviction that the time is here to take this new step. If I am in error - then I ask those who turn to me who disagree with me - and recognizing that you may be in error I turn towards you in unity.
  • speaker
  • I speak against. I am sorry that we have spent so much effort on this issue. what is going on. This is not an issue of human sexuality - but an issue of secularization of the church.
  • I fully support gay rights. I do not support hits motion. I love the anglican church and communion deeply. The communion is not mythical - it is real - it is the body of christ. We cannot risk the split.
  • I speak in favour. We need to keep moving forward - just because everyone else says no - does not mean that we have to say no. We can say yes. We can be the power of change. For 30 years we have debated - we need to open the door of love.
  • This is my 5th synod and I'm tired. Dogma - Holy Trinity and Christ - two natures in one. You are required to be dogmatic in this. Outside of that - we are talking about doctrine - which can be changed. Doctrines are linked particular faith community's and their conversations. We have a different context here - than in Africa. If we agree that the above 2 dogmas are essential - then we can have the flexibility to discuss this issue - and come to a conclusion - which does not include division.
  • When someone brings a small child, baby or young adult - for baptism - I baptize that child into full membership in the church - which means that that individual has access to all the sacraments of the church. I don[t know if that baby is going to be gay. How do I come to grips with a church that says no to homosexuals marrying or being blessed and my baptizing people into full membership in the church.
  • speaker
  • A sexual preference does not make a person different. Think about it - if your best friend tells you they are gay.
  • Against this motion and against same sex blessing. I have a couple of friends that are homosexual. The fact that this is not a done deal with the greater church - we cannot decide by ourselves.
  • I did not prepare a speech - I felt moved by the spirit to say something. Our Lord ate and drank with sinners. OUr churches must be like that - none of us are free from sin. Including our priests. Jesus will refresh us - We come to him with our sins - and he accepts us. The best thing I can do for my homosexual friends - is give them a place of refreshment .
  • I hope we can love too much - and if this is a sin - then that's forgivable - more so than loving too little. We sacrifice what we believe sometimes when we want to fit in. To be in the world is to be filled with fear. BUt perfect love casts out fear. A lot of people here are afraid today - afraid of the results. I'm more interested in loving. We're already broken in the world. In some places in our communion women are not even human beings - and can be sold. Do we trust our bishops? Do we trust them to lead us? I left another church to be freed - free me again - so that I can love everyone.
  • It is a question of inclusion. The discussion is about including (not scriptural but cultural) - I want to thank the church for being able to discuss this issue. I speak in favour of this motion. I have 15/16 year old children - and if they tell me that they are gay - will they be excluded from my church? We don't have enough people as it is - and here we are turning them away - for the wrong reasons.
  • Same sex unions are not against core doctrine. I've heard the angst of a few people about potential division. I am not concerned about this. There are parts of our church that do not accept women in the priesthood. The division is there - and it has been for decades. It has not hurt us - or our worship of God. You, you, you and I are not fit to judge our brethren - please pass the motion.
  • In 2004 I voted against the motion. I thought we should be holding the church together. I have since realized that I was excluding a group of people from our church - from something I take for granted - my marriage of 43 years. I don't know if it's right or wrong - but I know that I ignore the poor, and I have more than one coat - I don't think that gay and lesbians are outcasts and sinners. Christ said love one another as i have loved you - do not judge lest you be judged. James said there is only one judge - and that is not me. I will stand before My creator one day - and I do not think I will have to account for supporting this motion. It encompasses sinners like me. We are not different.
  • speaker
    • Speak in favour. IF we pass this motion I have questions about process. I hear that everyone is not understanding of this issue as most of us. I hear anxiety about what will happen should we pass this motion and how will be implement it. In N Westminster - they have blessing communities. I need to know how we will move ahead.
    • BISHOP SPENCE answers - it will be up to the bishop how it will be enacted and what process will be put in place. It may be the decision of someone else after the 29th of February !
    • I feel we should change our community for the better - safer. I have looked at both sides of the discussion. At one point I would have been against. I am now in favour - I cannot turn my back on people who are different than myself. We need to take a step forward and lead others down the road.
    • We need to get fears of where we this will go. Gays and lesbians practice monogamous relationship.
    • I speak in favour - all are welcome at the table of the lord. we must treat all respectfully - welcome all to all aspects and sacraments fob our community.
    • I speak against - i speak against the phrase - clergy whose conscience permits. I don't doubt that the bishops would honour that - but this is just the same as saying that those whose conscience permits can preach that Jesus is not lord. If Jesus is lord - we are bound under his rule and what he says - we believe his way is the best way. We need to hold ONE position. If this was just a justice issue - then to allow conscience does not make sense- it is to say you can be unjust if you like. We know that this more.
    • Leadership is wisdom courage and carelessness of self. There will be a price. Our communion is worth nothing if we won't give it a way - and if we won't stand up for what we believe. I support the motion.
    • I am in favour. The church must be a leader pushing the boundaries of love. Let's open our hearts to gay and lesbian couples.
    • Whether or not I'm for against doesn't matter. One can welcome everyone whether or not we are for or against. Inclusion bothers me - we are to include everyone. We are exclusionary - because if you do not believe in christ you are not a christian. We must find language that makes us all feel a part of this communion.
    • We are not talking nameless and faceless people. We are talking about people who site beside us and give us their money. They are good enough to do that - please do not make me go back to the gay and lesbian brothers and sisters and say no - not this time.
    • I am passionately in favour. I hear people who say include and I hear people who speak from fear - what boogie man lies behind the door. What will happen in the Anglican communion if we vote for this motion. I am confident in the spirit - I challenge you to be courageous leaders - to step out in love and to make a decision that comes from love - not fear. I pray that other members of our communion will make their decisions from a place of love.
    • I vote in favour. 2000 years ago - people failed to realize the presence of God in Christ and put him to death. If we see unity as more important than justice - then we fail. We need to trust that our future is safely in God's hands.
    • I vote in favour - because we have to settle this. We have been a laid back church. Over the last few years a tremendous amount of energy has been used on this battle and needs to be put other places.
  • speaker
    • I vote in favour. I don't think we will be excluded from other world churches - for financial reasons alone. There are many churches in our diocese that are struggling - excluding people will only make it worse.
    • The issue has never been adult, committed or loving toward each other. It is whether an action is right or wrong. Whether God approves or doesn't. The scriptures are clear - the answer is that God does not approve. Long term fidelity is rare. I vote no.
    • This motion is not about inclusive or welcoming. I have not heard anyone talk about judging our brothers or sisters. We are talking about how we define marriage. We all have different roles to play.
    • I never think about what's the night going to look like when I officiate of the marriage. I look at their loving and caring. Lets look beyond what happens in the bedroom. Look at love - not sex. I speak in favour.
    • Marriage is much more than sex. I have been married 50 years and I cannot deny the love in good marriage to anyone.
    • I vote in favour - I am tired of the rhetoric. I want to include everyone in our church. I speak in favour. As a mother of a gay man - I have been on this journey for so long. I feel that all has been said. There are many parallels in the churches journey as in the family . I call the question.
    • QUESTION IS CALLED
    • Request by three members to vote by clergy and laity - granted
  • Vote on Motion CLERGY:
    • In favour: 82
    • Opposed:13
    • Abstained:
  • Vote on Motion: LAITY
    • In favour: 157
    • Opposed:40
    • Abstained: 2
    • Motion carried - by 81% of combined houses 18% opposed.
    • Bishop Comments: He and Michael will discuss this with the primate later today. Implementation will be looked at in the days ahead.

     

     

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